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Pogba’s attitude
In response to Gough, LFC, Dublin, my immediate thought process as to why Pogba etc. are held to a higher standard is that they earn more in a week than most of us do in a year. I appreciate that it is all relative, but when Pogba ‘phones it in’ of an afternoon i.e. like he did against Southampton, he has earned more for that 90 minutes then the rest of us will earn in the whole month. While we all understand why and how they can earn so much, the minimum expectation from fans is that you will at least look like you give a sh*t for 90 mins a week.
We don’t see all the work that goes on behind the scenes, so we can only judge on what we see. When you see an awful film, you blame the director of that film. You know that he/she will have put probably years of their life into it, but the end product is awful so we distribute blame appropriately.
We can only judge Pogba, and probably Ozil comes into this as well, by what we see. I’m not advocate of the Harry Redknapp ‘Just run abaat abit’ school of football, but I can see when a player cares and is applying himself. There was a great piece on here about Diego Forlan and being a cult hero at United because he tried, he got respect because he tried.
Effort is the minimum expectation.
Conrad Wiacek, MUFC
…In response to Gough, LFC, Dublin, about Pogba and why people feel he is obligated to push push push and be the very best he can be in every game. I share your sentiment completely. (Many of) the same fans berating Pogba for “not caring” are invariably the same kettle of fan who berate Ozil, Berbatov, Le Tissier, Payet, etc… the player who appears lazy.
You know what, I’m a gigantic Ozil fan and I’ll defend him to the hilt, but despite all the stats telling me how far he’s run, I’m still of the opinion that he might have been able to do a little more here and there, you know? Despite his usually very good output for key passes, chances created and goals assisted (I like to think I “get Ozil”)… yeah, let’s be honest the little blighter DOES look a little bit more chillaxed compared to someone like Lucas Torreira doesn’t he? And who wouldn’t?
I have theory, and the same theory applies to Pogba, to Berbatov, to Messi, to Robinho, to (original) Denilson, Ronaldinho, even to Alex Hleb and Ravel Morrison… and that’s that they just find the game too easy. These players, regardless – absolutely regardless! – of how their careers ended up, were footballing prodigies from a very young age all the way up to today. From when they first tried a keepy-uppy to today, in terms of just pure, innate technical ability, touch, balance, skill, and whatever else (not pace and power necessarily) they’ve always been the best player. No one can get near them, they’ve never had to really try, the things which people strive so hard to achieve (technical ability) they’ve got more of that in their knee than someone like John O’Shea will have in ten lifetimes.
But it’s a double-edged sword, because as you get to the professional leagues then the stuff that they didn’t work on, (pace and power), all of a sudden become a great equaliser, especially when out of twenty-two people on the pitch, maybe at best three rely on technical skill and the rest rely predominantly on pace and power.
And then the cherry on top is your theory which is basically their mindset, and I completely agree with it. Some people are just happy to do just enough to make a living. Some people are happy being blessed with their outrageous technical gift, use their innate gift to contribute to the team, and aren’t necessarily compelled to want to be paid a massive fortune and move to a huge club. Or, brutally, to do more than they have to. Likewise, massive clubs in turn may be reluctant to buy these players because of their obvious mindset. (Matt Le Tissier springs to mind, as does Reynald Pedros, Hugo Viana, Juan Arango, Riquelme, Ricardo Quaresma – outrageous talents who were quite happy to do just enough).
Some mega-prodigious talents like Messi, Zidane, Scholes and Neymar obviously combine their talent with hard work and determination, but I would venture for every one of those there are thousands of people who had prodigious talent but zero will to work at it, and fell by the wayside as a result. But you’re right, Pogba is probably happy just doing enough, rather than everything.
Dale May, Swindon Wengerite
Jose’s safe
Debating Mourinho sacking and why it hasn’t happened yet, is I believe completely pointless. There was talk when Moyes was so terrible in the job that he couldn’t (not shouldn’t or that it was too expensive but couldn’t) be sacked while MU was still in a position to qualify for the CL. That there was a clause in his contract meaning he was totally safe in his job while he met the minimum requirement for the job is fair enough if you ask me. Many might instantly say “but the minimum requirement is that they should be entertaining” however that is a relative measure open to interpretation while failure to qualify for the CL is clear cut (the distinction is very important if you don’t want to end up in a court battle).
Now I have no idea if the existence of the clause is true but the evidence of Moyes sacking and that of LVG (sure it was after the FA Cup rather than as soon as CL qualification was failed but as they were in the running for the CL until late in the season it would have been stupid to sack the manager who got the team to the final just before it). The trade off for such a clause (if it existed) is that Moyes was limited to one years salary (excluding bonuses) as a sacking payoff, again fair enough trade job security for less of a payoff.
I believe the clause exists and so I find every letter, comment and article, including the mentions by F365, calling for JM’s immediate sacking pointless and they just foster false hope to many. I am pretty certain we have JM to hate until some time in early April and unless his successor is available immediately then possibly the end of the season. So suck it up people cause wanting it to be different isn’t going to make it so.
Some investigating journalism by f365 could help on this one.
Murray (so glad Woodward will never run and Mourinho will never manage my club) Whiteford
Pogfeelings
Was writing an epic email on the Pogba not trying therefore he’s a virus and Jose’s right debate and thought I could sum it all up in 3 questions:
1 – Ever worked for someone you liked and respected, who knew how to treat you and your colleagues correctly?
2 – Ever worked for a dickhead/bully?
3- Which one inspired 100% effort from you?
I’ve worked for both types and know which one I bust a gut for.
United youth team managers, French youth team managers, Conte, Allegri, Deschamps plus all the coaches he’s played under never seemed to have an issue with Pogba. Even Ferguson seemed more annoyed that he left rather than hanging around to play league cup matches. Never heard him question his attitude towards playing the game. Mourinho on the other hand has a proven track record of using his players and staff as lightning rods when things start start to crumble around him. But of course, all of this is Pogba’s fault.
Daithi (Told You This Would Happen), Cork
Jose’s missing his mate
Manchester United defenders 2017/2018 vs 2018/2019 can be summarised as
Minus Blind
Add Dalot
Unless Blind’s 4 appearances had a major effect on the season let’s call the changes in personnel negligible. And instead of relying on 2 30+ wingers turned full backs its 1 x 30+ winger turned full back and Luke Shaw who’s actually been playing well. Only other real change in the defence has been Lindelöf instead of Jones.
Yet somehow in 2017/2018 United conceded just 28 goals last year in the league vs having conceded 23 goals this season in just 14 games.
Everyone is quick to point the finger of blame at Mourinho (or Pogba & social media stars) but the one thing which I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere is the impact Rui Faria, aka Mourinho’s right hand for the last 17 years, leaving last summer has had on the United squad and their ability to defend (or attack but that’s a different discussion).
Anyone out there with some time to look into it? Is he the missing link or is it a case of correlation or causation?
Digger Dave (lets focus on Rui and not just go Mourinho bashing), Brissy
…Given how little commentary there has been regarding the current malaise at Manchester United (cough cough), I thought I’d offer a possible explanation that I’ve not seen properly explored on these hallowed pages, or at large. Given this is actually a better pool of players compared to the group that finished (an admittedly underwhelming) second last season, the drop off in performance is genuinely alarming. Defensively in particular we have posted figures that De Gea being revealed as human(ish) can’t fully account for.
The question it begs, for me, is how much influence did Rui Faria have at the training ground, and just how keenly is his absence being felt? I’ve always heard how he acted as the chummy ying to Mourinho’s sociopath yang, but given the sharp decline in performance and coordination in evidence this season, what else was he responsible for? This isn’t intended as a dig at Mourinho, necessarily. Ferguson wasn’t much of a coach either and surrounded himself with the right personnel to mitigate that fact. Besides, there are so many other issues Mourinho deserves digging out for!
It is, by definition, a bit of a dig at Faria’s replacements: Kieran McKenna and especially Michael Carrick. Both deserve time and patience, and I do wonder how much influence they are even allowed to have under Mourinho, but a consistent complaint from United fans is just how under-coached we look as a team. Last season that was purely an attacking problem, this season the malady has spread to cover the whole pitch. Luckily, before too long we’ll know precisely what the Carrick/McKenna axis is capable of when they take charge of 4-6 dead rubbers at the end of the season once Top Four is mathematically impossible and Mourinho has finally checked out of the Overlook Hotel. Something to look forward to…
Adam MUFC (Whilst we’re on questions begged, who let Lukaku get that big?!?)
Re: Johnny Nic’s article “Why can’t Jose Mourinho find his own Eriksen?”, the reason is that United’s recruitment system is absolute toilet. You have to go back to 2011 to find the last signing that’s an unqualified success in De Gea. Prior to that you’re going back to the signings of Evra and Vidic in January 2006.
It’s tempting to put all the blame on the manager, but the reality is that United are the most financial wasteful club in the history of the sport and its been going on under 4 managers now. Most signings are flops, they’re signed with little regard for what the team needs, any players who are sold are sold at a loss, players are normally given at least 2 seasons of being totally useless before being let go and players in their 30s get contract extensions well beyond their usefulness.
United need restructuring, that starts with getting a Director of Football with a good record and taking Ed Woodward out of footballing affairs entirely. Maybe Mourinho stays, maybe he doesn’t – personally I can’t see anyone out there with a better record – but simply firing him and doing nothing else will see us in exactly the same boat with the same deeply flawed squad and a less successful manager.
KH
Klopp’s cunning plan
So this is my first time mailing, been reading the mailbox for a couple of months now so we shall see if I do this right. I haven’t seen it suggested here so I figured I would ask…has anyone else had the thought that Klopp is just keeping the reigns on until February/March to keep us from tiring out and running out of steam and then unleash hell and let them back to our heavy metal ways to finish the season and make up the goal difference? Might be wrong but figured I would ask.
Ben (Oklahoma LFC) or is it supposed to be [Oklahoma LFC] or neither?
Because he’s worth it
In response to Thom from Newport, what’s all this nonsense with Ramsey’s greed? First of all the assumption that he wants 350k a week like Ozil is just that, a big assumption. If as more likely, he wants somewhere between 150k-200k a week, I think that’s more than reasonable for this player, especially in today’s market. Consider he is in his prime and is still 27, vastly experienced (at club and international level), has won this club trophies on his own boot, is very productive, versatile, and has given the club 10 years of service.
And continuing with the theme of greed, why not just see it as a player knowing his worth? – still relatively young but vastly experienced, knows the Prem inside out, very productive, always gives 100%, and at this stage of his career knows that this will be likely his biggest and last big contract, he owes it to himself to try to get what he thinks is a good deal, and especially in today’s market and ridiculous wages, what he is likely seeking (i.e. not the silly wanting an Ozil wage rumour) is more than fair compensation given all that above. With Mhikatarian for example, making a reported 200k a week and been a flop for United and Arsenal, why wouldn’t a player like Ramsey think he deserves at least that?
Now further consider all the players Arsenal have had over the years that have sulked, arguably downed their tools when wanting bigger contracts, been coddled and lazy primadonnas – Ramsey despite his long service has reportedly been told his contract offer is now rescinded, been relegated to a sub and a Europa League player and YET, has never been disruptive, been a true pro, and continues to give his all for the club in what could very well be his last season (and remarkably co-leads the league in assists).
And this notion about energy and discipline, one thing you can never accuse Ramsey of is lacking energy. And about discipline? Ramsey has certain strengths and is a certain type of player, you don’t need 11 robotic players, there is certainly a place for a risk taker and x-factor type player in the SQUAD who can and wants to make things happen. It doesn’t mean he has to play all the time or be the first name on the team sheet – and I trust Emery to know how to use Ramsey’s strengths and the type of player he is.
He’ll get a wage he deserves (hopefully at Arsenal), but certainly at some other top club in Europe, especially since he’s on a free. This is not a greedy player.
Prince, gooner, USA
The farce of manager’s contracts
No-one likes to see anyone losing their job, but the announcement that Southampton FC had decided it was time to part ways with Mark Hughes comes as no real surprise and probably a relief to many. I harbor a soft spot for the Saints; my teenage years were spent in Winchester, and when pocket money or Saturday job commitments precluded me from going up to Stamford Bridge, a quick train ride to the Dell saw me spending a lot of Saturday afternoons on the Milton Road terraces; and I could still get back to start work at 6 in the evening. Watching Hughes perform at the club with such rank incompetence depressed me.
What is worse though is the thought that, if reports are to believed, that he’s riding off into the sunset laughing his head off at his contract being paid out to the tune of GBP5.5m, having already pocketed six months’ worth of contract to the tune of a cool half million for basically doing not a thing that added a shred of value to Southampton’s season. I can’t for the life of me fathom why clubs continue to hand out these kind of guaranteed contracts. If a person is confident and good at what they’re doing, then back-load the deal, bake in incentives and reward success. If you’ve got to throw a sackload of money at someone just to get their attention with absolutely no downside for them for underperformance and underachievement, then you’re asking for trouble and you deserve what you get.
Only once in my professional career was I offered a personal services contract. This was a three-year deal and structured as one period of 18 months with an option for the second 18. My salary was locked for the first term, and was agreed up front for the second term should the option be exercised. Basically, I couldn’t quit but the company could let me go at the 18-month break point. I had no qualms about signing this deal – I loved what I was doing and I had no fears that I would be let go for underperformance, so why worry? I don’t see why an ambitious individual offered a three-year deal at a Premier League club would not accept a break option after years one and two. If the first year is a shocking disaster, then shake hands and move on. Why should Hughes be compensated for being a waste of space?
Steve, Los Angeles
..Shows how far Manchester United have fallen when a relegation candidate fires it’s manager for not beating them.
Pete.
Camera concern
Long time reader, first time mailer. A few weeks ago I read a piece on 365, about how much camera time is spent looking at people in the ground who are either not playing or not relevant to what’s happening on the pitch.
Whilst watching the Merseyside derby there was a moment in the first half where the camera was on Marco Silva for what seemed like an eternity, all while you could hear something clearly worth watching was happening on the pitch. Not really sure what I’ve achieved with this mail other than proving I read 365.
Dave, London
What a difference a (jammy) goal makes
Deep into injury time in the Merseyside Derby and Virgil Van Dijk swings his boot and miscues a kick.
The ball starts travelling upwards, destined to loop out for a goal kick.
I begin cursing the waste of a final opportunity and our poor deliveries throughout the day. Of course we waste this last chance. Our final ball has been poor for most of the day and when there’s a second ball to be won, we either lose it or start shifting it backwards.
The farce of the mishit only makes me more angry as it spins in the air, slowly heading out of bounds, surely to bring about the final whistle.
I keep fuming. We’ve been at this all season. Outside of two or three games, our midfield is failing to create and falling apart under pace. Teams aren’t falling for the press and whatever tactical tweaks we’ve made have thrown the balance of the team’s attack well out of kilter. We’ve been lucky in too many games, found ourselves in serious trouble in Europe and we’re now as close to fifth place in the league as we are first. City are going to steamroller us from here on.
Wait a second…
What’s Pickford doing?
Is that Origi? Did that count?
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Two points from top. Two wins from our best first half of a Premier League season ever. Undefeated. Lowest amount of goals conceded in the league. Winning ugly. Derby day delight.
Football’s great, isn’t it?
Sam(inho)
Johnny’s consolation prize
Just wanted to say congratulations to John Nicholson – hopefully by tomorrow’s mailbox he will have already won the FSF award (I voted for him, anyway!), but even if not, he deserves congratulations for his appearance on The Guardian’s Football Weekly podcast.
Oliver (thereby somewhat one-upping Daniel Storey on the rival podcast at the same time!) Dziggel, Geneva Switzerland
